Welcome to Austin DWI Charges, a four part conversation with Ellen Stader and Austin criminal defense attorney, Charlie Roadman. Charlie has handled over 500 DWI cases in his 15 year career as a defense attorney in Austin. In these interviews, he discusses the Travis County court system, strategies, negotiation, and what you should do after the arrest. For more information on Charlie, check out roadmanlaw.com. For more info on Ellen, check out Austinwomenlove.com. Episode four.

Ellen Stader:

Hello. Hello. My name is Ellen Stader. I am coming to you from Austin, Texas. I'm here with Charlie Roadman, who is an attorney at Roadman Law in Austin. And we have been talking for a few episodes about the process and the effect of a DUI arrest. Charlie, tell us about alcohol monitors.

Charlie Roadman:

Okay. And it's a DWI.

Ellen Stader:

Did I say DUI again?

Charlie Roadman:

Yes, it's hard.

Ellen Stader:

Let's go back and just spell out the difference real quick for anyone who missed it the first time.

Charlie Roadman:

Okay. DUI is what other states call a DWI. So in Texas-

Ellen Stader:

In Texas, DUI is a lesser offense.

Charlie Roadman:

Yes. It's a class C ticket, and that's for when you're under 21, and a officer smells alcohol on your breath while you're driving. That's what you-

Ellen Stader:

I mean, that is a worry, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about DWI, driving while intoxicated.

Charlie Roadman:

Correct.

Ellen Stader:

That's the one that screws you.

Charlie Roadman:

Yes, that's the one that gets you put in handcuffs, and your car gets towed.

Ellen Stader:

And then you get an alcohol monitor.

Charlie Roadman:

Well, you can if the facts of the case are not good. A DWI, where the blood alcohol content is lowish, meaning it's like 0.09 or 0.10 or something, it's over the limit but not crazy over the limit, it's unlikely you'd get an alcohol monitor. But if the BAC's higher or there's been a collision or anything dramatic, the judges do want an ignition interlock device initially while the case is pending, and sometimes during probation if you end up on probation.

Ellen Stader:

So you get arrested, you go to jail, you get out on bond. And one of the things you have to do is go to a company and they install a lock on your car?

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. If the magistrate judge-

Ellen Stader:

If they, yeah. If that's required.

Charlie Roadman:

If that's required. Yeah. And they're private companies. The one that we use the most, or have our clients use the most, is called Smart Start. And you make an appointment with them, so it's not like a Jiffy Lube where you just drive through. You got to make an appointment and you go in, and it takes about three hours for them to put it in your car. And then you drive away. You have to blow into it to start your car. And then while you're driving, which people don't realize, it's sort of random every 10 minutes or so.

Ellen Stader:

Wow. Just like an alarm goes off and you have to blow?

Charlie Roadman:

Yep.

Ellen Stader:

Wow.

Charlie Roadman:

You have to reach down to blow. And that's strange, because people think, Well, that's dangerous now," but it's on a cord. Anyway. It prevents you from starting your car and then going into the bar for a couple hours and drinking-

Ellen Stader:

Leaving it running, and then-

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah, exactly.

Ellen Stader:

God.

Charlie Roadman:

Which sounds insane, but-

Ellen Stader:

I am certain I know people who've done that.

Charlie Roadman:

Yes. Yes. They have to think of everything. Anyway. But that's one possible consequence, alcohol monitor. The next level up that they have is what's called a portable alcohol monitor, a PAM unit. And there are two different kinds. There's one that Smart Start uses, which is the cheaper unit. And then there's the one that we recommend to our client, which is called Soberlink. And Soberlink is about the size of two iPhones strapped together with a tube, and you have to blow into it in these intervals, these windows. And it's either three or four windows a day. Morning, mid afternoon, afternoon, night. And basically what it does is it proves you're not drinking, because if you were the next window you'd blow alcohol.

Ellen Stader:

Right. It just keeps a running record of your blood alcohol level.

Charlie Roadman:

Right. And so our clients use the Soberlink a lot, often voluntarily, to try to their case dismissed. Right? So if I have a client that's case is sort of borderline, we convince our clients to do this Soberlink device for ... three months is basically the minimum. That's sort of the magic number where we get credit. But sometimes it's six months. And then in rare situations there's a year long thing where the prosecutors have a pretrial diversion program that, if our clients are eligible, they sometimes have to blow into it for a year, which is incredibly hard and inconvenient, but it's a dismissal. Anyway, the Soberlink device is worth a lot to the prosecutors. Okay? Because three months of sobriety proven, which we print out the results and we give it to the prosecutors, and that gives them a little more flexibility to dismiss or reduce a case than without it.

Ellen Stader:

Makes it much clearer that probably this person can maintain sobriety.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. And that is what it is. There's self control. You've proven self control, for alcohol anyway. It shows that, circumstantially, that it's possible that this won't happen again, I guess. You know what I mean? It's maddening though, because you have to blow kind of early in the morning. And it's 5:00 to 7:00 AM.

Ellen Stader:

Oh God.

Charlie Roadman:

I know. Right. So although they can move it to 6:00 to 8:00. I mean, you don't have to blow at 6:00, you just have to just blow at 7:59, just one minute before the window. And it's discreet enough that, if you are allowed to go to the bathroom wherever you are, you can do-

Ellen Stader:

Right. You just go in the bathroom.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. But you have to have timers and all sorts of stuff to make sure you don't miss. I have a video about it on my website that explains all this.

Ellen Stader:

Mm-hmm (affirmative). And what's your website?

Charlie Roadman:

Roadmanlaw.com.

Ellen Stader:

R-O-A-D-M-A-N law.

Charlie Roadman:

That's right.

Ellen Stader:

Okay.

Charlie Roadman:

Not Rodman law.

Ellen Stader:

Not Rodman law.

Charlie Roadman:

Which was never a problem until Dennis Rodman became famous. But now that he's sort of not so famous. It's weird, it was like right when the peak of his career, just people would call me Rodman all the time. But not so much in anymore.

Ellen Stader:

And then you dye your hair red and it was super confusing.

Charlie Roadman:

I know, and they couldn't tell us apart. So yeah, these devices, they can be mandatory or they can be voluntary. But they're always hard. There's no easy way out of this.

Ellen Stader:

Is there anything easy in the wake of a DWI arrest?

Charlie Roadman:

There really isn't. And the things that you do that are hard, to get more credit. So the difference, right? Sometimes our clients, this is rare, but have an ignition interlock device and a Soberlink. Okay?

Ellen Stader:

Wow.

Charlie Roadman:

Which is you go, "Isn't that redundant?" It's like, "Well, not really, because you could be going on a bender, and if you didn't have the IID you could start your car." You know what I mean? They do two different things. Okay? But of course you could start your girlfriend's car or your boyfriend. You know what I mean? It doesn't stop everything. But now there's ...

Ellen Stader:

But if you're going out of your way to circumvent the safeguards that are put in place to keep you from driving drunk, then your problems are bigger anyway.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. Or you're just young. I mean, I do have some clients that are young, and they try to game the system. And it's-

Ellen Stader:

I've never done that.

Charlie Roadman:

I know.

Ellen Stader:

I never did that when I was younger.

Charlie Roadman:

I was there when you were younger. And we both did. But yeah. I am trying to convince people a lot of times that, when we're dealing with this situation, gaming it, I mean it's not going to work for one. Because there have been a million con artists that come through the system before you that were better at that than you, and they got caught. You know what I mean?

Ellen Stader:

Yeah, because the system evolves to find those cons and get in front of them.

Charlie Roadman:

Right. And so with the Soberlink, I mean, they catch people all the time. What they do is they blow into it. Right? So let's say their window's at 2:00 to 4:00. They'll blow into it at 2:00, and they'll drink a couple beers real quick. And they'll just hope that when they have to blow again at 10:00-

Ellen Stader:

[crosstalk 00:10:15] 8:00, yeah.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah, at 8:00 or whatever, that it'll be out of their system. And then when it catches a little bit of it, they'll be like, "Oh, no, that was mouthwash," whatever. Which could be true. Right? I don't know. I wasn't there. But I do know the prosecutors and judges won't believe that. It's just-

Ellen Stader:

Yeah. You're not going to get a benefit of the doubt.

Charlie Roadman:

No. No, no, no. It is a trust free building in that courthouse.

Ellen Stader:

Well, that's our legal system.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. But they're not being mean. They're trying to-

Ellen Stader:

With reason.

Charlie Roadman:

... protect everybody, including the defendant. If you're having problems for sobriety for three months, they want to do the next level of counseling. They want to get this ... They don't want to punish you-

Ellen Stader:

Try and address it.

Charlie Roadman:

Yes. They're not punishing you. I mean, it feels like punishment. I guess that's the problem. Like these things, whenever you have to something you don't want do, that feels like punishment.

Ellen Stader:

It feels like punishment.

Charlie Roadman:

But the courthouse, they're not whipping you, they're not flogging you or anything like that. I mean, the things they want you to do are rational and-

Ellen Stader:

Reasonable with ...

Charlie Roadman:

With a goal.

Ellen Stader:

Hopeful outcomes. Right.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah, yeah. With a goal that it prevents things in the future, or helps you.

Ellen Stader:

Well, the whole thing, I mean, so it's traumatic when it happens. It's disruptive afterward when you have a million hoops to jump through. But it is a process that you can navigate. And I think that's one thing that I've learned through going through this with you and sort of understanding it a little better, is that there are definable, achievable steps that everyone can take. And I mean, as diverse as the people and their problems that are going through this system, but it is doable.

Charlie Roadman:

Yes. Because you know what the goals of everybody are. Once you know what the goal of the prosecutor, which is to not get fired. Right? The goal of the judge, which is to be reelected. I mean, I'm jokingly cynical about it, but they have things that they-

Ellen Stader:

To not have this happen again, so that it negatively impacts the client and everybody else who has touched that case.

Charlie Roadman:

Right. Right. So once you figure out that. I walk this line. I mean, I'm a defense attorney, so I don't trust the police. Right?

Ellen Stader:

Right.

Charlie Roadman:

I don't trust the prosecutors or the judge. I have to confirm that everything goes right. But at the same time I can also believe that the system's goals are essentially benevolent. I mean, it's not ... At least in this county. You know what I mean? It's-

Ellen Stader:

Well, that's reassuring to hear, because I never felt like that. I feel like a lot of people don't feel like the system's goals are essentially benevolent.

Charlie Roadman:

It's ... Yeah.

Ellen Stader:

Because when you're on the outside of the system and suddenly you're in the system, it's unfamiliar, it's terrifying, because everybody else knows what's going on and you don't. You're entirely at their mercy. And like you said, then you have to start doing all of these things that you don't want to do. And it feels like punishment before you've even been convicted.

Charlie Roadman:

Right. Right. And there's the Winston Churchill joke that democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.

Ellen Stader:

Right.

Charlie Roadman:

And like ours is the worst criminal justice system, except for all the others. Obviously there are problems. So I mean, there's all sorts of reforms that need to be made, because it does negatively impact people that aren't wealthy, or they're poorer. Anyway, I'm not blind to those institutional problems. But on a case by case basis, the prosecutors listen. They don't just wave me off. They listen to what I'm trying to show them. And I think that's just a credit to Travis County, for one. If there's judges that are unreasonable and irrational, then all the defense attorneys and prosecutors would support their opponent in the next election. You know what I mean? There's a way to correct things like that. And so different judges have different personalities, but there's none of them that are unpredictable, which is really what you don't ... That's the thing you don't want. You don't want to not know what's coming.

Ellen Stader:

Yeah. You want to know who you're dealing with and what you can expect.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. And what-

Ellen Stader:

And how to navigate that.

Charlie Roadman:

And what they're going to want. Like a good nurse hands the tool to the surgeon before they even know they want it. You know what I mean? You're ahead of them. Which is good, because your clients don't ... One of our goals, or any defense attorney's goals once someone hires you, or in that initial consultation, is to explain what's coming.

Ellen Stader:

Because that might be the scariest part, just imagining all of the stuff that could be happening to you, and don't know what to prepare for.

Charlie Roadman:

Right. And if people are unpredictable in the system, or the attorney doesn't know the system very well, they might say, "Well, X and Y was going to happen," and then three months later Z happens and your client's looking at you like, "What? I didn't know about this." And so anyway, that's what we're trying to figure out is, what's the worst case scenario? And what are the things that are going to change when different evidence comes in? For example, there's a fairly new in the last year, year and a half, people that didn't blow, refused to blow and they got a search warrant and they took their blood, that takes two to three months for that blood result to come back. Which seems crazy, but that's just how long it takes for them to do. Sometimes longer. But when that blood comes back, if it's over 0.15, most of the judges are now saying, "Okay, now you have to put an ignition interlock device. Okay?

Ellen Stader:

Ah.

Charlie Roadman:

Because the magistrate judge who set the initial bond conditions doesn't know what the BAC is.

Ellen Stader:

Didn't have that information.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah, didn't have that information. And so the judges, for a couple reasons, one, they want to protect themselves. Right? So now that they know this data, if they don't take some proactive measures and a tragedy happens, they're going to look like they weren't doing their job. But they also don't want to give people bonus or credit for not blowing. The system wants you to cooperate with the police.

Ellen Stader:

Right. Of course.

Charlie Roadman:

Even when it's not in your best interest.

Ellen Stader:

Of course they do.

Charlie Roadman:

Although, anyway. So that's something that we have to prepare our clients for. Say, "Yeah, even though your bond condition doesn't say ignition interlock device now, when those blood results come back-"

Ellen Stader:

That's a possibility in the future.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah.

Ellen Stader:

Well, that's a benefit of having an attorney who's been in the business for 15 years. Is that how long you've been doing it?

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. Yeah. Over 15 now. But really, it depends on when you start counting. Right? Because in law school I was in the criminal defense clinic my second year, or third year. But anyway, so if you count that, it's 16 years. If you don't, if you wait until I pass the bar, then it's 15. But anyway. Yeah. I've been doing it a long time. I never know what to answer that. I want it to be more impressive, but then I don't want to be deceiving.

Ellen Stader:

I feel like if you're working in multiple increments of five, a year here-

Charlie Roadman:

That's how [crosstalk 00:19:00]. Okay.

Ellen Stader:

Yeah. A year here and there. It's like saying, "I'm four and a half. I'll be five in six months."

Charlie Roadman:

Right. Right. So yeah, that's ...

Ellen Stader:

Okay. So let's jump forward a little bit. You've been through the arrest, you've jumped through all the hoops required. Eventually, how does this affect your arrest record? What does that look like?

Charlie Roadman:

Well, right before I talk about that, I want to mention one other thing. Just because the end of this is really me communicating to the clients what the best plea bargain is, and they decide whether to accept it or have a jury trial. And so the plea bargain could be a dismissal or some form of dismissal, some compromise, or it could be a conviction with probation, or even jail time. Although jail time is typically voluntary. Like my clients choose to go to jail rather than be on probation for two years. That doesn't happen a lot, but some of my clients-

Ellen Stader:

I've known people who've chosen that.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. Sure. It's a rational decision if ... I say it's like a personality test. Right? So some people go, "I won't go back in there for two minutes." And other people go, "10 days? No problem. Whatever." So I'm in the two minute group. I'm not going back there. But probation's not bad if you're not partying. If you're still young and partying, probation is a pain in the ass. But if you're done partying, probation's just inconvenient. But anyway, okay.

Charlie Roadman:

But when they're choosing whether to take the plea bargain offer, my job is to get it to the best possible deal. And then if I see any path to something better, then we keep going. So cases can go on for years, two years or so. That's rare. But because I keep seeing ways we could get better.

Ellen Stader:

What's an example?

Charlie Roadman:

Well, if you do another two months on the Soberlink then we might be able to get this. And might be able to cut off all this community service, or we might finally get that dismissal down to this. Anyway, just things like that. But at some point we've come to the end, where there's nothing else that can be done. The prosecutor is at their limit. This is the offer, take it or have a jury trial. And so, anyway. That's kind of the end game. I'm looking at someone and going, "That's it. We've done everything we can. And here's where we are." And hopefully that's some dismissal or something. But maybe not. Because I sort of joke that we get a lot of cases dismissed, but not all of them. There's some that can't be.

Charlie Roadman:

Anyway, your question about the arrest record. So this is painful, because the fact that you were arrested is publicly available. Okay? In fact, the Statesman inexplicably prints mugshots of people. I don't understand why that company feels the need for those four cents to humiliate people. Anyway, if you work at the Statesman, that's a terrible, terrible thing you're doing. So that, and people ... The courthouse website has the docket. So people could find it that way. You sort of have to know where to look, and even most attorneys don't know where to look for that. So even if we get the case dismissed, your arrest record will show arrest and dismissed. So our goal is all always to get something that's expungeable. A conviction is not expungeable in most situations, although there's some new law that allows some scenarios. Anyway, there's too many variables for me to explain it all here.

Charlie Roadman:

But what we want is an expungeable disposition. But you have to wait two years after the dismissal to do that. So there's a statute of limitations that you have to get past.

Ellen Stader:

And just to be entirely clear, expunging means wiping it clearly.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah. Everything is deleted, destroyed, and you get to say it never happened, which is kind of fascinating.

Ellen Stader:

That is so fascinating.

Charlie Roadman:

So legally lie. But that also, you should hire an attorney to do that. Theoretically you can do it yourself, but it's crazy hard. The attorney files all this paperwork. And there's a hearing, that you don't go to, that's just the attorney. And as long as there's nothing wrong, as long as you're eligible the judge will sign it. And then everyone's-

Ellen Stader:

So this is pretty much separate from your case. Your case has been closed, two years have passed. You hire another attorney to go through the expungement.

Charlie Roadman:

Expungement process. Although you usually hire the same attorney, because almost all defense attorneys do it.

Ellen Stader:

That makes sense. They already know your case.

Charlie Roadman:

And they have all of the data and all the stuff, because you have to prove some things. But that's a pain in the butt. So people go, "You mean even if it's dismissed it's still on my record?" It's like, "Yeah, but it'll say dismissed." But that's not as good as nothing being on your record. And there's certain scenarios that things can be expunged a little faster. But again, too many variables to explain it all. But that's the goal. We want to get your record back to zero.

Ellen Stader:

And so if that doesn't happen and there's an arrested and dismissed charge on your record, how does that impact people?

Charlie Roadman:

An arrest that's been dismissed?

Ellen Stader:

Yeah.

Charlie Roadman:

There's no way to say exactly. I mean, it just depends on the company or the person that sees it. Like apartment complex, like if they see an assault case and is dismissed, they could still decide to take the next guy in the packet rather than you. So unfortunately there's no way to know how it would affect them.

Ellen Stader:

Yeah. The variables.

Charlie Roadman:

It won't affect like licensing things. Like so if you're getting a pilot's license or you're getting a nurse's license or something, they're not going to hold a dismissal against you just because they have strict rules about ... But private companies, they can-

Ellen Stader:

It's variable.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah.

Ellen Stader:

Yeah.

Charlie Roadman:

But that is a crappy part about any arrest. And that's why we want to get it expungeable. And there're DWIs, there are some scenarios where they are expungeable, where if the facts aren't too bad, or if you do a lot of work up front and stuff. And so if there's a way, we'll find it. There's not always a way, unfortunately. But we're good at finding them.

Ellen Stader:

That's why, A, you don't get arrested.

Charlie Roadman:

Yeah.

Ellen Stader:

Don't do the crime take. Don't have to do the time.

Charlie Roadman:

Take Uber. Or Lyft.

Ellen Stader:

Or Ride Austin.

Charlie Roadman:

Ride Austin. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much Ellen.

Ellen Stader:

Thank you, Charlie.

Charlie Roadman:

All right.

Ellen Stader:

This was super informative. Hopefully it'll keep people out of the courts.

Charlie Roadman:

Yes.